Jonathan L. Berry, vice president and senior research director for the New York-based market research and consulting firm RoperASW, is one of the U.S.' leading consumer trends analysts. He is co-author with RoperASW CEO Edward Keller of the book The Influentials (The Free Press, 2003), a profile of Roper's proprietary research on opinion leaders and their growing role in the marketplace and the society. The book has been praised as "groundbreaking" (Seth Godin), a book that "deserves a place on the shelf of anyone in business or politics" (The Washington Post), and "must reading not only for marketers but everyone interested in how our society and culture function" (Daniel Yankelovich).
Berry will be one of the much anticipated keynotes at the upcoming iMedia Brand Summit in Tamaya. In advance of his address, I spent some time talking with him about his presentation, The Influentials philosophy, embracing change, broadband and word-of-mouth.
Jaffe: Give a quick explanation of what the book's about…an elevator pitch if you will.
Berry: I'll do it quickly as you never know how much time you're going to have on an elevator with someone these days…
Jaffe: Although these days in New York City with blackouts and suspect elevator service records, an elevator ride can last anywhere from hours to an eternity!
Berry: Right!
We have it down to three key ideas. In our trend research at Roper, we see that word-of-mouth is valued by Americans one-and-half times more today than it was a generation ago, in the ‘70s. As a result, word-of-mouth is valued twice as much as traditional editorial or advertising. The upshot of that is, it's particularly important to reach the people who are at the center of the conversation. And there are some people, we find in our research, who are twice as likely to be sought out for advice and ideas by friends and contacts, and are twice as likely to make recommendations. And those people are "The Influentials". And we think that they're an integral part of the national conversation today, and something that is the new reality of marketing.
Jaffe: To me the book is a natural next read after The Tipping Point. In fact, one of my primary takeaways from reading The Influentials was to your point earlier, that word-of-mouth has become more important as an influencer than ever before. And I think the all important question is how does this affect or will affect the media mix?
Berry: Yes. The logical conclusion that we make, and it's sort of the rallying cry, and one of the ideas that we want to get stamped into everyone's consciousnesses we talk to, is that decisions are conversations today. This is not the ‘50s when you could direct somebody through a TV ad to go out and buy a product, and they would do it.
People need to, and want to, be engaged in conversations. And when you think about how society has changed, it's a really logical evolution. Of course technology is a major factor, and we see that all around us. Take for example the importance of the Internet in day-to-day life in America now, with more than eight in 10 Influentials regularly on the Web. It's like breathing to them now. It's part of life.
But also, we're a more educated society today. And while more education may not make you smarter, we see in research that it makes people more self-confident and more assertive; more likely to challenge received wisdom. And similarly, while age doesn't make you necessarily wiser, it does open you up to a lot more experiences. And again, it increases confidence.
So it's like that bumper sticker, "Question Authority:" We have a nation of question-authorities now; people who are very versed at asking questions and challenging things, and who expect to be included in the conversation.
Jaffe: One of my core passion points centers around the concept of the empowered consumer. Researching online as one example, has empowered consumers and made them ever more confident, but at the same time, because they are empowered, they research more, they compare more, they connect more, they talk to one another more....
Berry: That certainly seems to be the case when you look around. The Internet's a very good example of that now, that it's continued to evolve and grow these last couple of years. Interesting new products have come up. We see in our research that there are certain things being ingrained into Influentials' behaviors that I don't think have been fully appreciated in the popular consciousness yet, like online banking for example. About four in 10 regularly bank online now.
New uses continually coming out of the Web, the whole democratizing aspect of the Internet, or the ability of individuals to create change through the Internet, all continue to push things forward, regardless of where the corporate world is.
Jaffe: I'm currently developing a concept I call New Marketing and I think inherent to this new philosophy is the belief that media is evolving, and the way that marketers ultimately reach, connect and build relationships with their customers has changed forever.
Berry: I think that's true and there always should be a new marketing, because there always should be new ideas coming into the process. What's particularly exciting about the time that we're living in is that there's such a quantum leap forward that has occurred because of technology, and it's continuing, despite all of the doom and gloom of the last few years with the stock market. What we've seen in our research is that the adoption of the Internet and interest in new evolutions, new directions in the Net, have continued to take place among the public and particularly the trendsetter groups, like The Influentials.
Jaffe: And to your point, marketing has to continue to be "new" -- specifically because the consumer is evolving.
Berry: When you look at how broadband, which has now reached penetration – we see about one in three of the Influentials have broadband, and for the public as a whole, it's about 18% -- that's really going to be changing things a lot, because as you have more power, more capability, from a consumer standpoint it makes it a lot easier to get information.
It creates a lot of opportunities for expanding and deepening the conversation you have with the consumer.
Jaffe: One of the things I've always focused on when thinking about broadband, is not so much the fact that the speed is necessarily faster, but that there is this "always on" kind of proposition.
And one of the things I pulled from reading The Influentials thus far – which I absolutely love by the way – is this water station analogy. And that, to me, is where these two concepts collide. The fact that broadband represents an always-on stream of communications, where Influentials or any consumer can pull information on demand – to me, that's the water station.
Berry: You're exactly right. And one of the points we make very strongly in the book is that it's important to be there when an Influential wants you. The reality is a lot more interactive right now. It's just a matter of recognizing that. And the always-on capability of broadband combined with the depth and breadth and richness – it's going to really change marketing.
Jaffe: What has the receptivity been from the market to this concept of the Influentials?
Berry: Going back to the idea of a rallying cry, I think it's probably, decisions or conversations today and how one can get in on the conversation. And it's surprising to us – and very engaging to us -- that there is a lot of receptivity to this type of thinking, across the range of contacts that we have had the opportunity to talk with about this concept.
There's recognition that things are changing, and that's the beginning point of a change. Look at bestseller or publishing lists. The Tipping Point has been a bestseller for a number of years now. Seth Godin has found receptivity to a series of books on the importance of connecting with individuals and seeking permission from consumers – all related to word-of-mouth.
There are a lot of conversations beginning to come together, and one of the things we say in the book is that you need a people strategy today, the same way that, several years ago, people said you needed a Net strategy, or several years before that, you needed a cable TV strategy. Conversation has begun to coalesce and I think there's going to be a lot of interesting developments out of that over the next five to 10 years.
Jaffe: What we are finding out nowadays is that marketers are becoming a lot more open to change – or certainly a lot more open to interactive. Some of it has been natural and evolutionary, and some has been more revolutionary in the sense, that "if we don't figure this out, we're going to be dead and buried."
Berry: Also, I think there's an understanding and appreciation that this can create tremendous efficiencies as well, and that can make new use of resources that companies already have. One of the points we make in the book is, almost every company has a toll-free number, or Web address for complaints. And we have found in our research that Influentials are much more likely to take umbrage when they have a problem with a product or a service.
Like four in 10 Influentials at any given time say that they've had a problem with a product or a service in the last couple of months, and that when they have a problem, they not only acknowledge it, but they do something about it. And chances are, a lot of those people who are writing emails, writing letters, calling companies, are the opinion leaders or Influentials, who will, one way or the other, based on their experience, be talking with their network of people, about whether the problem was resolved or not resolved by the company.
So one very easy step, instead of looking at those complaints' centers as nuisance control, these companies can turn it around and make it a tool. But secondly, also, tap their consumers' brains. To be able to ask these smart consumers, "What else do you think? Are there any ideas that you have that you want to talk to us about?"
Jaffe: There's a very obvious parallel with one of the sweet spots or best practices of interactive, which is that media has evolved from a one-way monologue to a two-way dialogue, and that instantaneous feedback filter, or mechanism, that ultimately is expressed through a click or a form being filled, is, I think, fulfilling that point you just made.
Berry: Sure. And this is not to say that traditional media or advertising goes away. It's just sort of a slight flip on things, that an advertisement today may communicate information, but it's also a way of starting a conversation with somebody, and encouraging them to talk about it – so it's like the day after the Super Bowl, when you go back to work, that you'll be able to say, "What did you think about that Pepsi ad" – or "what'd you think about that Apple ad?"
Jaffe: That's a great point. And we're seeing today with TV, examples such as Reebok's Terry Tate, or even Budweiser going all the way back to "Whassup?" The fact is, these conversations or experiences are being extended online, and you're seeing made-for-the-Web TV commercials and continuous communications coming from the marketer, but also, you're seeing parodies being set up, and you're seeing communities sprouting up overnight, almost celebrating this concept, and being able to express their creativity through the actual creation of these parodies.
When advertising becomes that spark or that conversation starter, the opportunities to create buzz and for Influentials to embrace that is so much higher.
Berry: You bring up another key point, the imperative of integrative marketing, that for many, many years, companies could comfortably have all their various marketing touch points going in different directions, and yet survive. And I think that's much harder today, and is going to be much harder going forward, because the consumer thinks more holistically, in a more integrated way – plus, they're harder to get a hold of.
So you may not catch them completely on TV – in fact, you don't catch them completely on TV. A lot more people are switching around; they have a lot more options on TV. So you might get a hook of them in TV, or a hook of them when they go into the store, but you have to really be out there in a number of different venues with a consistent message.
Jaffe: Right. In terms of being able to attempt to find their route; to be that water station, and waiting to be close to that point of contact – two questions. First, how can marketers reach this group, using media, marketing, any form of touch points? And second, can Influencers be influenced?
Berry: Second point first. Very much, the Influencers can be influenced. That's not to say that they can be manipulated – I suppose you can always manipulate somebody once, but then you haven't made a friend, you've made a disgruntled consumer.
But at the same time, this is a group that, going into its core values, we find there are three core values in Influentials. And it's not so much status or prestige. A lot of it is because of relationships -- that they want to do something for their kids, or they want to do something for family, friends, that sort of thing.
So personal relationships is key. Integrity is a second theme we see very much with them. The third one I think is very germane here is learning and exploration. More than 80% of this group has been to college and more than half have graduated. Learning and knowledge are core values in this group, and much more so than the public as a whole. It's why they tend to be so information oriented, which draws them onto the Web, draws them to doing research when they're making a purchase, draws them to seek out stuff when they want to learn about a candidate for office.
So what that means is that they're receptive to information, and if something compelling, something meaningful comes along, you can capture them.
Second, on how you can reach this group, like we say in the water station analogy, you kind of have to be in a number of places, because it's a fairly fast-moving, busy, active group, so you can't count on them passively waiting for you to show up and give them something. Certainly, the Net, since it has that, as you said, always-on capability, it's a must in reaching Influentials. Informational media – magazines, newspapers, print – this is a group that reads a lot. They do watch television but I think you'd attract more with big-event type of TV like a Super Bowl or other major event during the course of the year.
Jaffe: The one point you mentioned a minute or so ago, providing info, providing value, providing utility – providing a means to learn – these are all obvious tactics and capabilities that the Web provides.
Berry: We did a survey for Washington Post.com of visitors to that site and one of the key findings is that when the Influentials in this study were asked how information should reach them, the Internet came out tied for first place with newspapers with an almost 60% response rate. So they definitely recommend that advertisers use the Internet to reach them.
A surprisingly high number of Influentials find online advertising to be useful to them. I don't think that should be considered an endorsement of banner ads or SPAM, because this is a group that takes great umbrage to any sort of encroachment onto their personal terrain. But it does, I think, create an opening for online advertising to grow and evolve, and change, and become richer and more interactive.
Jaffe: I think the Internet is at a point now at which we absolutely need to drive home what its primary role is. And I think certainly, this conversation, and some of the ideas offered in The Influentials, alludes to, perhaps, what I believe to be a very profound role the Internet can play from a marketing and communications perspective.
Jon, can you give the iMedia audience a sneak peak or a preview of your keynote in Tamaya; some of the things you're going to be talking about?
Berry: What I want to be able to do is to just lay out four or five key themes – ideas, opportunities that we see in the online world for the next year or so, based on what we see right now with Influentials.
One of our jobs at Roper is to help our clients think about what the world's going to be like six months from now or a year from now. You know, what tomorrow's headlines will be so they'll be better positioned for that, and so they'll be able to be ready when the rest of the world moves there; be ahead of their competition.
We see that now with the Internet, where there was never really a slow-down, that we saw, in interest in use of new technology among Americans. Some things have shifted around a little bit, but they continued to grow, and the digital revolution has continued these past three years, and that's an idea I think the media has begun to recognize more in the past months.
So what I'm hoping to do is lay out the next stage in the speech.
Jaffe: In closing, I'm going to ask you my signature signoff question, "If Jaffe Juice were a drink, what would it be?
Berry: Obliviously high energy, thought provoking, with a global twist.
Jaffe: I certainly like that. It must be the accent speaking.
